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counties, it is a case all over the country, they are underperforming and we are overperforming and mr. axelrod can spin it how he wants, about john mccain or not doing well but the matter of the fact is, his message is carrying the day. >> chris: but we talked with axelrod about the real clear politics average of recent polls and the electoral map and here's a list of the key swing states i want to ask you about. you are trailing in wisconsin, you are trailing in pennsylvania, ohio, and iowa, and, as you suggest, you are basically tied in what for you is the must must-win state of virginia where the obama campaign, and we'll get to the specific states in a moment but i want to ask you about the general point. are you saying that these polls, public polls are wrong, or are you saying they may be right but you will win any way because your ground game is better and you'll turn the voters out more effect thistle than they are. >> it is like nailing jello to a tree, the polls are all over the place and they are different in each state by each day. there are two numbers to keep in mind, ac
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